Greater Southwest Aero Modelers Chat Forum

Builders Forum => Kit & Scratch Builders Forum => Topic started by: Joystick on August 25, 2017, 01:04:49 pm

Title: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Joystick on August 25, 2017, 01:04:49 pm
Obviously I've had a stroke or a major head injury.

After the grueling and painful five-year long Bellhop/Faux Cat build, I swore that would be the last plane I ever built from scratch, yet here I am gathering up stuff to start the build on a big biplane.

Seems like I have two 30cc gas engines that need to find a home in a plane. Well, at least one of them. I'ts good to have a spare.

Also, I don't have a biplane anymore and I miss it.

I found a place where I can get 4'x8' sheets of coroplast, in colors other than white, for about half what they charge at Homely Depot.

The idea of just glueing big sheets of plastic together and not having to deal with painting and covering appeals to me.

Old Chuck Cunningham's 76" Lazy Ace seems like a good project.

Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Joystick on August 30, 2017, 09:33:24 am
Has anyone built a plane from coroplast, other than the H.O.R.s?

Progress is slow, have to do a lot of thinking and making sure the project goes well. My patience is limited and I hate to do things over again.

I made a tool from two "hook" type knives to remove the plastic from one cell in order to make hinges. It works pretty well.

Also finished the drawing of the full-sized, 12" cord, top and bottom wing ribs.

Need to find a clear spruce or pine board to use to make the "I" beams for the wing.
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Lane C. on August 30, 2017, 01:38:33 pm
Steve, I haven't even heard of Coroplast, much less seen a plane made out of it. Ha. Maybe some photos would help? Lowe's and Home Depot have some good "clear" woods in small sizes that you can hand pick.
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Joystick on August 30, 2017, 02:18:55 pm
Here is a link to an 8' Cub made from the stuff.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjOpOrj1f_VAhUJwVQKHZQwA00QFghNMAU&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.instructables.com%2Fid%2F8-Ft-Wingspan-Coroplast-RC-Piper-Cub%2F&usg=AFQjCNHwSekFKD79JWLAVBuVmXLzhBNNeQ

Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Lane C. on August 31, 2017, 06:59:52 am
Saw a little bit before the pop-up ads took over. Looked like a cheap way to build a plane.
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Joystick on August 31, 2017, 07:20:56 am
For me the price is not the issue.

I've always wanted a Lazy Ace Biplane and I'm too lazy to build it from scratch using bits and pieces, not to mention the covering and painting. The last scratch built plane took me five years to complete.
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Joystick on August 31, 2017, 10:54:10 am
I was going to go fishing this morning, but the wife said we need to conserve fuel due to Harvey. Probably a good idea.

Anyway, there is no end of projects and honeydews to be done, none of them are much fun, so I started the "lofting" of the fuselage and making the templates for the fuselage bulkheads.
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Joystick on September 04, 2017, 05:37:43 pm
Been doing a little work on the LA Bipe.

Got the bulkheads cut out, except for the 1/4" squares, will do that last in case I can't find "real" 1/4" spruce. I'm tired of getting stuck with the old metric wood surprise.

Since I don't have a $3,000 laser wood cutter, I did them them old fashioned way. Drew them up on my old $93 CAD program, printed them out on my old printer, pasted them on the plywood and used a band saw and jig saw to cut them to rough shape, then sanded them to the final shape. I don't hold the same tolerance as Lane does on his projects, which is close to 0.000,000,000,001", but I am pretty sure they are close to 0.125". Close enough for Coroplast.
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Lane C. on September 04, 2017, 11:37:29 pm
No Steve, a bit of exaggeration, I was only expected to hold 0.0005" with a mill file and the naked eyeball as a Class B Template Maker in the General Dynamics template shop. ha
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Joystick on September 05, 2017, 03:57:13 am
Quote from: Lane C. on September 04, 2017, 11:37:29 pm
No Steve, a bit of exaggeration, I was only expected to hold 0.0005" with a mill file and the naked eyeball as a Class B Template Maker in the General Dynamics template shop. ha


I was an aircraft mechanic in the Marines. Our idea of precision was - measure it with a micrometer, mark it with a chalk, and cut it with an axe. We also believed that duct tape could be used to fix almost everything. If you look close at my planes, like within ten or twenty feet, you'll notice that I've stuck to that training.
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Joystick on September 08, 2017, 04:25:24 pm
Started cutting out the ribs for the top and bottom wings. I only need five for the bottom and four for the top. They are made from 3/4" pine.

They are thick because I plan to use them to hold the Interplane Struts, Cabane Struts, and to bolt the wing onto the fuselage all with 1/4" nylon bolts, they will also have threads cut into them so no nuts will be required. It will take 24 of them to hold everything together.

Fortunately?, only 16 of them will need to be put on at the field, so it should go together quickly once I get to the flying field. I need big bolts and no nuts because my fine motor skills have gone the way of the Dodo bird. I also don't have much patience.

I hope this thing will fit in my Xterra when I'm done. I may need to strap the fuselage on top. That's okay, it's what the Xterra was bought for, hobby abuse. I guess I could make the tail removeable. Maybe just cut the fuselage off near the tail and bolt it on with a few more bolts at the field.

I still need to find a way to glue the Coroplast. I've tried the methods from the internet and none of them seem really great. I've tried different methods for glue prepping such as: flashing, woodpecker, sanding, cleaning, etc. Also tried different glues, CA, Goop, and Gorilla. They all work, but all of the glues fail before the plastic does.  Anyway, that may not be a problem since the plastic is really strong and short of welding, nothing may stick to it that well. I guess I could use rivets.

Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Joystick on September 12, 2017, 10:02:02 am
Got the bulkheads glued up in the forward fuselage.

Lots more to do. It sure is taking a long time to build this thing, I thought it would be much faster.
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Sonny Coleman on September 12, 2017, 01:00:04 pm
Oh no, the picture police have arrived!! :o Runaway!!!


Steve, to properly view the picture attachments each picture file needs to be resized to fit in a standard web browser page. You might consider using a graphics program, like Paint (comes with Win-7 & 10), to resize the pictures to something like 800x600 pixels or 1024x768 pixels.

The posted pictures no doubt have great detail, but you have to use the scroll bars to view the whole picture selection.<sniffle>
If you like the large size of the pictures being posted, then by all means continue to post pictures as you prefer.

Either way, Thanks for sharing your new build with us!

Sonny
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Joystick on September 12, 2017, 02:21:46 pm
Quote from: Sonny Coleman on September 12, 2017, 01:00:04 pm
Oh no, the picture police have arrived!! :o Runaway!!!


Steve, to properly view the picture attachments each picture file needs to be resized to fit in a standard web browser page. You might consider using a graphics program, like Paint (comes with Win-7 & 10), to resize the pictures to something like 800x600 pixels or 1024x768 pixels.

The posted pictures no doubt have great detail, but you have to use the scroll bars to view the whole picture selection.<sniffle>
If you like the large size of the pictures being posted, then by all means continue to post pictures as you prefer.

Either way, Thanks for sharing your new build with us!

Sonny


I don't use Windows that much anymore, too many issues and way too slow.

I found a Chrome app I can use.

It's hard to remember which forum needs what format. I usually post on RCU and it doesn't matter there. Will try to remember 800 here.

Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Joystick on September 13, 2017, 01:13:30 pm
Some of the younguns haven't seen a Lazy Ace since Chuck died several years ago and they were more popular at the T-Bird field.

Here are the plans that I am using, but not following, because the coroplast needs a totally different internal structure. The only thing that will be according to the plans is the basic outline.

One mod will be to increase the size of the rudder, there were some complaints about that on some of the build sites.
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Joystick on September 14, 2017, 07:52:59 am
Got the center ribs and "I" beams for the wing put together. The dihedral came out the same on both sides, I don't know what i did wrong there.

This assembly weighs 1-1/2 lbs which is not too bad for a 6' wing made out of a bunch of 3/4" pine blocks and yardsticks.

I'm not really trying to save any weight, with two 6' x 1' wings, there will be 12 sq ft of wing area, so as long as the weight is under 24 lbs, it should fly okay.

I need to put on two more ribs, one on each side, they will be hardpoints for the interplane struts. After that, it will be glue on the coroplast. White on the bottom and yellow on the top.
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Joystick on September 16, 2017, 06:15:37 am
Getting closer to the coroplast "covering" point.

It sure takes a lot of time, work, and decisions to just get this far.

The wings weighed in at 2lbs 12oz at this point.

The fuselage weighed in at 2lbs 14oz. Of course after the engine, wheels, bracing, etc. get added that weight may quadruple.
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Lane C. on September 16, 2017, 08:15:18 am
Don't forget to add a pilot!
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Joystick on September 16, 2017, 09:54:04 am
Quote from: Lane C. on September 16, 2017, 08:15:18 am
Don't forget to add a pilot!


I just dug out two old pilots. I have a "Sportsman" type and a "Troll Doll" that I captured from one of the kids. Decisions, decisions. If the plane flies well, I'll go with the Sportsman, if not, it gets the Troll.

Just finished setting up the engine mount. I always hate figuring out how much correction I need to line up the prop C/L to compensate for right and down thrust.

Seems like the muffler will be pretty close to the side of the cowl. I don't think that will be a big problem, it should just melt the coroplast and let me know where to put a bulge in the cowling so it has plenty of clearance. I'm pretty sure that's how real planes are designed.
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Joystick on September 18, 2017, 03:26:49 pm
Still not happy with the way the glue almost sticks to Coroplast. May be okay for the H.O.R.s and small planes, but I need a warm fuzzy that the wing will not come apart in the air.

I found something that will work. The Chicago screws, used in offices for binding documents together are lightweight and have nice big flat heads. I can use them about every 8" to 10" along the LE and TE of the wing to hold the upper and lower skins together in concert with the glue. Problem is that none of the office supply places here have them, or have even heard of them. The hardware stores have them, but they are priced higher than gold, over a dollar each. I found some on line, by the box of 100, for $7. I don't mind stores making a profit, but a 1,600% markup is criminal. If I had known they cost that much, I would have just taken an office supply account when I retired instead of a 401K.

If you need some neat little clamps Harbor Freight has some cheap ones that are great for holding trailing edges together while the glue dries. They open about 1" and have a good grip.

i have the fuselage almost ready to cover with the coroplast. I have been struggling with how to do it the easiest way possible. Seems like it will need to be done in two pieces. The rear will need to have some slots cut to allow it to bend around the tail cone.

Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Joystick on September 20, 2017, 08:11:56 am
Got a little more done. Slow but steady.

Working on the cabane strut templates. I decided to lower the top wing from 5" above the cowl to 4". Thanks to my engineering TLAR math, that works out pretty well.

Also, got the rib templates for the stab drawn up. The ACE has a "lifting" stab, I guess Chuck thought that 12 sq ft of wing was not enough to carry the weight. Maybe he wanted to ride in it. Anyway the stab is HUGE, 11" x 32", that's as big as a lot of planes I used to fly.
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Barry Ponder on September 20, 2017, 01:41:51 pm
Steady and constant progress. Looking good. She will be flying in no time.
Barry.
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Joystick on September 22, 2017, 08:42:06 am
Figured out a way to mount the horizontal stab on this plane. I'm going to make it in two pieces, a left and a right. They will slip onto the fiberglass rods that will be glued to the tail of the fuselage after the rudder is in place.

The hard part is making sure that the holes drilled in the fuselage are level in all directions. The picture shows the drilling jig in place.

I can always correct minor errors with the tail brace wires since this plane will really need them.

Looks like I can get by with only four ribs on the stab. This plane uses a lifting tail so the airfoil is going to be right side up.
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Lane C. on September 22, 2017, 08:54:04 am
Steve, when/where/how does the oscilloscope come into play here? ha
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Joystick on September 22, 2017, 09:24:58 am
Quote from: Lane C. on September 22, 2017, 08:54:04 am
Steve, when/where/how does the oscilloscope come into play here? ha


That is used to detect the Russian spying, they are trying to steal my construction secrets. The tin foil on my shop walls does not prevent all of the ultrasonic intrusions.
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Paul Lange on September 22, 2017, 09:35:25 am
Steve - Did you ever find a bonding glue/epoxy/weld means for the colorplast that did not cost a bazillion bucks?

Paul H Lange
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Joystick on September 22, 2017, 03:04:21 pm
Quote from: Paul Lange on September 22, 2017, 09:35:25 am
Steve - Did you ever find a bonding glue/epoxy/weld means for the colorplast that did not cost a bazillion bucks?

Paul H Lange


Yes, but it does not work as well as the $34.27354674524 stuff. I think the only people who use that are the space aliens in California who crashed here back in the '40s. They are still trying to fix their spaceship. Since the downturn in the tech industry, a lot of them have been laid off and they are having trouble getting their ship back in working order.

I'm going to use the medium CA, because I can buy an 8 oz bottle for almost the same price as a 2 oz bottle of the slow.

The flashing helps the glue stick, and may be great for an electric, but for a gas powered plane I need the security of the screws and bolts.


Bolts and screws will be used as a backup to the glue so I'm not worried now as much as I was when I started.
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Joystick on September 22, 2017, 09:48:44 pm
It helps to buy in bulk for some items.

The prices for Chicago Screws, per screw, ran from $.70 to $3.20 in our area. I got a box of 100, on-line for $.12 each including  shipping, still too high, but not insane. I need 40 to 50 of them, so bulk is the only way to go. Sorry, but $3.20 each is just robbery without a deadly weapon, $6 vs $160 is a HUGE difference. I would need to eat a lot of cat food to afford those prices.

I found some good screws to hold the coroplast onto some of the wood pieces, like the ribs. Nice big heads that won't easily pull through the coroplast.

I'm cutting and bending the metal wing braces now. Pretty boring job. It is hard to get the bends right so they line up correctly.
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Joystick on September 23, 2017, 04:48:38 pm
I've been dreading drilling the holes for the stab rods in the fuselage tail. In the past, I've had a lot of trouble getting them level and square.

Lucked out today, the jig worked really well and the rods are only off about 1/16" at the tip. Well within my 1/4" margin of error. I can adjust that much, or maybe a little more, with the flying wires.
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Barry Ponder on September 23, 2017, 07:03:27 pm
There's a new dog on the block.  Rogers's Aeromotive and there doing a great job. Also their keeping it to within a 1/4 inch. Ha.
Barry
Ps or was it half inch.
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Joystick on September 24, 2017, 06:49:54 am
I try to keep a nice close 1/4" tolerance on my building projects, plus or minus 1/2". Sort of like LM Aero.
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Joystick on September 28, 2017, 08:31:34 am
I started covering the horizontal tail with coroplast this morning. it is harder than i thought. I guess I need to make a checklist and put it on a big sign for the process.

It seems simple. Clean coroplast to remove dust and dirt, flash with torch, clean with windex, use glue dots for coroplast to coroplast and lots for wood. So far I have forgotten to flash some areas with the torch and to clean with windex. Oh well, that's what the screws are for.
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Joystick on September 28, 2017, 08:17:43 pm
Got another milestone almost done. The tail feathers fit pretty well.

This plane is getting HEAVY. I'm thinking it will not be bothered by Cat I storms.

I may need a bigger engine.
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Joystick on September 29, 2017, 07:17:49 am
Started on the hardest part. Coroplast does not like compound curves.

The tool I made does make some great slots so it can be bent around curves in one direction and also to make slots for the hinges.

I figured out why some of the coroplast build instructions show the wing folds going with the flutes and some going at right angles to the flutes. It depends on the direction the coroplast you have has been cut, the sheets can be cut with the flutes going in either the long or short direction.

Cutting every other flute allows a pretty tight bend.

I'll put on the front covering later, it will be easy, no compound curves. I will cover the seam between the front and back with some 1/4" tape, it seems to stick pretty well.

Oh yeah, did I mention that this plane is getting heavy. According to my scale when I added up the various parts it looks like 15 lbs will not be possible. Looks like it will be closer to 20 lbs.

With the frontal fuselage drag, wing drag, and struts it will not be a good glider. I always like to use other planes for comparison purposes. A "real" Taylorcraft that is one foot high will glide about 12 feet forward, which is really great.

According to my TLAR math, the glide ratio will be pretty low, if this brick, I mean plane, is one foot high, it should glide about 1" forward. If the engine quits, it needs to be over the runway, okay, on the runway.

On the positive side, did I mention that this plane does not need to be painted? That's really good, if it needed paint, the scientists would need to create a new element that is heavier than lead.
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Joystick on September 30, 2017, 10:08:39 am
Getting close to the finish point on the fuselage. Got to put on the engine and the control horns and rods.
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Joystick on September 30, 2017, 09:26:57 pm
Got the rudder and elevator control horns and control rods on. That took way too long.

I did some weight calculations to see how fast the plane would taxi and if I'm lucky it will fly.

The coroplast is 2.6 oz per sq ft and I have 24 sq ft on the wings which will be about 4 lbs. The spars and ribs are 4 lbs. So when the wings are built they will total 8 lbs. Oh yeah, I need to add two more servos to the wings, so that will make the wings 8 lbs 4 oz.

The fuselage as shown in the picture weighs 7 lbs. The engine weighs 3 lbs 12 oz. So that assembly will total 10 lbs 12 oz.

So if my abacus is correct 8 lbs 4 oz plus 10 lbs 12 oz equals 19 lbs.

Twenty pounds was my MNE weight, for a 30cc engine. My Giant Super Sportster is almost 15 lbs, so I think the bipe will fly okay. It just won't be a floater.


Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: dlabby on October 13, 2017, 07:45:48 pm
That's looking real good. Sure pretty colors. Keep at it; can't give up now.
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Joystick on October 13, 2017, 08:06:40 pm
I took a 10 day break.

The cabane struts are giving me fits, no pun intended, maybe.

I can't seem to make four of them the same. Maybe once there are thirty or forty of them, I may be able to find four that are close.
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Joystick on October 14, 2017, 07:53:38 am
It took five hours this morning, but I finally got the cabane struts on the fuselage to hold the wing on straight. Well, not "Lane" straight but close enough.

Now to get started on the wings, that is why I hate biplanes, they have two.
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Joystick on October 15, 2017, 08:46:30 pm
I got the top wing skin size, slots, and aileron hinging figured out.

I drew it up full size used a piece of scrap and cut out flutes in the bottom of the wing skin so it would be flexible enough to make the bends and for the location of the flute on top to make the hinge.

Now all I need to do is transfer these cuts to the top skins and glue them on.
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Lane C. on October 15, 2017, 11:06:49 pm
I thought the corrugations went on the outside, you know, like a Ford Tri Motor! Ha

Fuselage looks cool.
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Joystick on October 16, 2017, 01:35:36 pm
Almost have the bottom wing finished. Just need to install the servos and control horns.

It is the hardest to build and also the heaviest since it has dihedral and the ailerons. The Chicago screws should work well to keep the wing together under the vibration of the gas engine. Time will tell. Like the first flight.

The weight is right at 4 lbs. Not too bad for a 6 square foot wing.

Time for a nap, then I'll get started on the top wing. I have the coroplast sheets cut already, just need to glue them to the ribs.
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Joystick on October 17, 2017, 02:57:00 pm
90% Finished.

Inside - doing some CG checks, got a lot of work to do to get it right. Outside - had to take a break from working on it and do a photo op, too tired to lift it, it is heavy.
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Lane C. on October 17, 2017, 09:52:36 pm
That material really makes a nice looking biplane. Just in time to fly her this year?
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Joystick on October 18, 2017, 07:11:07 am
Quote from: Lane C. on October 17, 2017, 09:52:36 pm
That material really makes a nice looking biplane. Just in time to fly her this year?


I'm not sure it will fly. According to my TLAR math, I need to remove 1 lb from the tail, or add 3 lbs to the nose to get the CG right.

Now i remember why I hate biplanes. I may need to put a Chevy 350 V8 in the nose.
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Lane C. on October 18, 2017, 08:28:59 am
Just make the nose longer! haha
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Paul Lange on October 18, 2017, 11:34:03 am
Deploy a stick for the tail wheel....and perhaps some Helium filled balloons back there?

Paul Lange
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Joystick on October 18, 2017, 12:11:00 pm
Quote from: Paul Lange on October 18, 2017, 11:34:03 am
Deploy a stick for the tail wheel....and perhaps some Helium filled balloons back there?

Paul Lange


As usual, you're no help at all.

I thought of using an electric ducted fan to lift the tail. That was no more help than your suggestion.

I guess I could put a "refueling boom" on the nose. If I make it two feet long and use lead, I can get by with about half a pound.

Another good idea, sort of, is to remove the wing and make it a monoplane, like a "1/2 Lazy Ace." It would also be three pounds lighter, but only have half of the wing area. I can hear Chuck moaning in his grave, a lot.

Another real option is to set the wing stagger to zero. Chuck only moaned a little at that one. That would move the CG way back without adding weight. The only downside to that is that it would obstruct the pilot's visibility. Hey, who cares? He can't see anyway, he's just a dummy.

Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: dlabby on October 18, 2017, 08:15:51 pm
Wow, your bipe looks great! Hope you get the cg worked out. (I know you will).
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Paul Lange on October 24, 2017, 12:48:15 pm
I miss the updates to the mighty CoroPlast Bipe build......anything new?

Paul H Lange
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Joystick on October 24, 2017, 04:53:58 pm
Took a couple of weeks off to visit the Chicago.

I've been working on it off and on since I've been back. Not much progress has been made.

Working on the wing incidence for the lower wing. I think it needs some.

The CG will be fun. I may need to wait for a new lead mine to open.
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Joystick on October 27, 2017, 01:22:56 pm
Got the bottom wing incidence fixed. Forgot to allow for dihedral when I cut out the fuselage wing slots.

Set the wing stagger to zero in order to move the CG back without adding lead to the nose.

Need to get the controls zeroed and run the engine to get the throttle throw set up.

Will be ready to maiden after today. Just need some warm weather with light winds.
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Paul Lange on October 27, 2017, 01:52:16 pm
Excellent sir.....I really want to see the plane on the ground and in flight.  Thanks for the update.

Currently very fine sleet hitting the windows today at 1:30pm.....very glad I waived off a week end motorcycle ride to Eureka Springs Arkansas

Paul H Lange
FMS 2000mm Beaver arrives Monday.....the big bird takes roughly 20minutes to assemble out of the box.
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Joystick on October 27, 2017, 05:16:15 pm
Quote from: Paul Lange on October 27, 2017, 01:52:16 pm
Currently very fine sleet hitting the windows today at 1:30pm.....very glad I waived off a week end motorcycle ride to Eureka Springs Arkansas


I love Eureka Springs. I used to live there. My Aunt was the cook for the Crescent Hotel. My wife and I go back every year and we try to stay in one of the towers. We always take the ghost tour, the hotel has quite a history.
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Joystick on October 30, 2017, 01:34:45 pm
Flew the maiden flight this morning, Oct 30, 2017.

The plane surprised me by taking off in about 3 seconds. It has plenty of power, it will fly at ΒΌ throttle with no problems at all.

It did require about six clicks of down trim.

Loops, rolls, etc. are slow and graceful.

Landing is a breeze, it comes in like it's on rails. Just needs a little up elevator to flare for a walking speed touchdown.

No bad habits.
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Lane C. on October 30, 2017, 02:40:05 pm
Congrats on the first flight! Good job, Steve.
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Paul Lange on October 30, 2017, 03:25:05 pm
Outstanding Sir!!!

Paul H Lange
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Joystick on October 30, 2017, 04:36:23 pm
Quote from: Lane C. on October 30, 2017, 02:40:05 pm
Congrats on the first flight! Good job, Steve.


I know you probably thought one of those black helicopters was flying over your property this morning, but that was just my knees knocking.
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Barry Ponder on October 31, 2017, 01:49:33 pm
Great job Steve on you successful maiden.  :)
Barry.
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Joystick on October 31, 2017, 02:22:50 pm
Added "bug-out" handle and some trim.
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Joystick on November 01, 2017, 07:44:43 am
Final thoughts:

Chuck Cunningham did a great job of designing this plane. 

The plane flys great even though I had to do some "bashing" to get the CG correct. I really hate to add weight to an airplane to make it balance correctly and none was required for this one.

Coroplast weighs over 2 oz per square foot which makes the tail really heavy compared to the normal materials used for model planes.

I don't have the manual dexterity to deal with a bunch of 4-40 bolts and nuts to mount the wings and rigging, so the bottom wing is held on with four 3" x 1/4" nylon bolts. The top wing is held on by four 3/4" x 1/4 nylon bolts. The cabane struts are held on by eight 3/4" by 1/4" nylon bolts. The two interplane struts, one on the right and one on the left, are held on by two 3/4" x 1/4" nylon bolts, one for the top wing and one for the bottom wing. Yes, I did buy the 3/4" bolts by the bag of 100. I have holes for the rear interplane struts, but since the Coroplast wing is so rigid, I don't use them. Wing mounting at the field is quick and easy.

The major change, which also affects the looks, was to move the top wing back four inches to get the CG on the right spot. One thing that is interesting is that there is no CG change with the top wing on or off. I could fly it as a monoplane, or a bipe. Of course the wing loading would be pretty high without the top wing. I may try it later just for kicks.

The other change, which is minor, was to add about 3 degrees of down incidence to the top wing. That was to help with the slow speed flight. The top wing will stall shortly after the bottom wing. Since there is no sweep to the top wing and no stagger, I felt that it would be wise to make that change to prevent a wing drop at low speed.

I was a little concerned about the "lifting tail" design and saw that some of the people who built the plane decided to just use a flat stab or a symmetrical airfoil. The choice does affect how the plane will behave with throttle changes. I put in about 2 degrees of right engine thrust and 3 degrees of down thrust. With that set-up, as I added throttle the plane did not climb at all since the tail provides more lift which keeps the nose from pitching up. With two huge Clark Y airfoils they would provide a lot of lift as the airspeed increases, so Chuck made a good design decision to have the tail airfoil so some lifting to keep the plane from pitching up too much as the speed increased. I don't need any trim changes from 1/4 to full throttle. I could have used a little less down thrust on the engine to make the plane fly more like a real plane. 

There is a lot of drag with this design, so there is not much change in speed from 1/4 to full throttle, and just noise change from 50% to full throttle. The plane is "lazy" in the air, it just seems to float along. It looks very realistic. 

Takeoffs are a little tricky due to the short fuselage. Slow throttle inputs and fast rudder inputs are required to keep the plane straight until a little speed is built up. I think that may be why some people have increased the size of the moveable portion of the rudder. I added 1/2", it could probably use a little more. I also took out all the rudder expo that I had initially. The plane will be airborne before you know it. 

Landings are great, the plane comes in like it's on rails. Due to the weight, a little up elevator, to stop the sink rate, is required a little earlier than I'm used to. I'll get the hand of it after a few touch and goes.

If I were to build another one out of Coroplast, I'd lengthen the nose a couple of inches and leave the wing stagger alone unless it needs to be moved to change the CG.
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Joystick on November 02, 2017, 04:23:00 pm
Some people have asked how long it took to build this plane.

I started it on Sep 12 and finished on Oct 30, so about 49 days.

So far, I spent about 150 hours on it, but it seems like a lot more than that.

I'm still doing little things to it, mostly trim, tweaking controls, etc.
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Joystick on November 03, 2017, 01:01:30 pm
Got another four flights on the plane this morning.

Takeoffs are a lot easier now that I removed all of the expo from the rudder. It allows me to make corrections a lot quicker. All the takeoffs were straight as an arrow.

It really did well in the crosswinds today.

Had three dead sticks today. Time to replace that old engine, I'm tired of messing with it. Got a new DLE-35ra to put in it.

Latest picture of the plane with some decals and trim.

Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Joystick on November 04, 2017, 06:58:33 pm
Got the DLE-35ra engine mounted and did the first run.

This is the most well-behaved engine I've ever seen. This one is #5 for me and they all ran great.

The engine was pretty "dry", and rough to turn, it felt like bad bearings. I added about six drops of oil to the cylinder with the plug out. Spun it for a few seconds with the electric starter. It loosened up okay.

Changed the plug to the CM-6. Will use the DLE plug for a fishing weight as usual.

Checked the timing before the run and it was set at 35 Deg BTDC, I don't like that much advance, so I set it to 30 D BTDC. The 46 Deg BTDC in the manual is a joke. I would like to see the video of them doing it. I set the H and L needles for 1.5 turns.

For the first start, I primed the carb with a few drops of fuel, then hand flipped the prop a few times with the ignition OFF, switched it ON and the engine started with four flips of the prop. I ran it for 10 min., mostly at the mid range and it never died even at a pretty low idle.

I'll do two more 10 min. engine runs, then adjust the carb and fly. Monday looks like a good day.

Something struck me the other day when I was bolting on the wings. Since there is no stagger between the top and bottom wing, this plane will not have a CG change if it is flown with the top wing off. Same with the bottom wing.

Later, after I'm used to the plane and the new plane smell is gone I'll try flying it as a low-wing monoplane, then as a parasol wing style plane. I'll need to see if the plane can turn without ailerons first since the top wing doesn't have them.
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Joystick on November 19, 2017, 07:40:55 am
Got over 20 ea. 10 min. flights and no problems with the plane so far.

I replaced the "lifting tail" with a symmetrical one that was also a little smaller. The DLE 35 is a lot of power for this plane, it flies scale like at 1/4 throttle. I think the lifting tail would be okay on the plane if it was built with conventional material and powered by a glow fuel .60 engine. The speed range would not be very large. With the DLE 35, the speed range is pretty large. The lifting tail works well to keep the plane from climbing too much when the throttle is increased at the lower speeds, but at high speed, it becomes really effective and causes the nose to pitch down.

Today, I'm going to play with the top wing incidence and see if I can remove some of it and not lose the current slow speed stability.
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Joystick on November 19, 2017, 04:07:27 pm
It was a perfect flying day. Got four good flights on the bipe.

The wing incidence set to zero, worked great. The plane does not balloon as much as it did before and the slow speed is still stable, no tendency to stall or drop a wing.

I'm done with the tweaking. Next is to fly it as a mono wing plane. That may be a while.
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Lane C. on November 19, 2017, 05:43:54 pm
Quote from: Joystick on November 19, 2017, 04:07:27 pm
I'm done with the tweaking. Next is to fly it as a mono wing plane. That may be a while."


Be sure and get that on video! ha
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: dlabby on November 20, 2017, 09:57:55 am
I watched it fly before that last bit of tweeking and it sure looks like it flies great to me. Congrats on a good build.
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Paul Lange on November 20, 2017, 10:35:13 am
Steve's description of his build is completely understated......it's an exceptionally clean fabricated build.  The Coroplast colors (Blue/Yellow) are bright and represent the Biplane very cleanly on the ground and in the air.

Steve's vertical stabilizer rope is an indication of the Coroplast strength....as it's not a string but ya......a ROPE. 

The pull of the power plant could probably drag a car down the road at 50% throttle.

The Biplane looks like it tracks on rails and even with it's "Heavy" flight weight.....touches down for landings like a butterfly with sore feet.

I thinK that thing will fly just fine in Hurricane force winds with ease - LOL

You have to see this aircraft for yourself and watch it fly

Paul H Lange
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Lane C. on November 20, 2017, 01:11:16 pm
Hey Paul, where is your Go Pro video? You coulda shown us how great it was! haha.
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Paul Lange on November 21, 2017, 11:22:29 am
Well you know how it can be when you haven't been to the field for a number of days......you honestly can't remember what you forgot.....so not only did I forget to bring the camera...I forgot to charge it the night before.......so Ya.....I missed video his flight.

It is an excellent bird to see in the air though!!!!

I'll try to catch this CBB (Coroplast Bipe Beast) on video ASAP

Paul H Lange
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Joystick on December 01, 2017, 08:57:34 pm
I had a little engine trouble this morning. The engine would not accelerate properly.

I thought I may have accidently switched my boat fuel with the RC engine fuel, but that turned out to not be the problem.

Next the problem seemed to be a fuel draw problem. I was going to put the carb and check the little screen to see if it was clogged. That would have meant that the engine would need to come off and that would be a lot of work. What can I say, I'm lazy.

I checked the fuel draw from the fuel tank to engine carb line and could only pull about half of the fuel out of the tank. A clunk problem. Turns out the fuel line had split and the clunk fell off. My fault, I put a little larger felt type clunk/filter in the tank, the fuel line seemed really tight. It was, and split after 47 flights. I hate it when that happens.

Pulling the tank may have been more trouble than pulling the engine.
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Lane C. on December 02, 2017, 06:05:07 am
Steve, watching you fly the Beast yesterday, I will say it flew very nicely. Pretty cool idea using the coroplast. Nice job.
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Joystick on December 02, 2017, 02:10:40 pm
I had a hiccup on one of the elevator servos a few days ago.

About half way through the flight, the right hand servo "centered" itself at about 30 degrees up elevator. It took full down elevator to keep the plane from climbing so I could land.

I took the control horn off and re-centered it. The servo seemed to work okay under a load, no jumps or centering issues. My replacement servos came in today, I'll replace both sides so they are both the same age and manufacturer.

Will do a tear-down on the old servo to see if I can find out what happened to cause it to jump off center.

I have 49 flights on the plane now. I think next week I'll see how it flies without the top wing.
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Joystick on December 19, 2017, 05:24:32 pm
Since it was a cold and rainy day, and the flying field is probably flooded, I decided to finally finish my plane.

I added a cowl and some fake exhaust stacks. I was going to make some cylinders stick out of the cowl, but I just don't have the building bug like I used to.

Been doing a lot of flying with it, just finished flight #62, all of them at least 10 minutes. Still having a lot of fun with it.
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Paul Lange on December 19, 2017, 05:32:02 pm
Outstanding Master Coroplast...!!  I wonder if the cowling may effect cooling and......if it will change flight characteristic in any way.  Please report observations as you see 'em.....

I have about 10minutes of stick time since the time change.......might get to fly this week end....something maybe.

Paul H Lange
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Joystick on December 19, 2017, 05:57:01 pm
I don't think there will be any change in the cooling, the engine head is completely exposed and the bottom of the cowl is open.

As far as flight characteristics go, this plane is already so draggy, a little more won't make much difference.

It may make it slow down more on landing.
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Joystick on December 21, 2017, 06:05:48 am
I think there is enough of the cylinder exposed to the airflow that cooling should not be a problem.

Hope to get in some flights today if the weather cooperates.
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Joystick on December 23, 2017, 11:22:38 am
I did manage to get in two flights before the weather turned to winter.

The engine did not run well at all with the cowl on. It kept dying due to fuel starvation and would only run about half of the normal RPM.

I took the cowl off and it ran great again.

Seems like the cowl was causing a pressure problem with the carb vent. I soldered a short brass tube on it and ran a short length of fuel tubing through the firewall so the carb could get static air.

The old saying "no good deed goes unpunished" is alive and well.

Ground run today was good. Will try to fly later today when the winds die down and the air warms up.
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Joystick on December 24, 2017, 06:55:44 am
Quote from: Paul Lange on December 19, 2017, 05:32:02 pm
Outstanding Master Coroplast...!!  I wonder if the cowling may effect cooling and......if it will change flight characteristic in any way.  Please report observations as you see 'em.....

I have about 10minutes of stick time since the time change.......might get to fly this week end....something maybe.

Paul H Lange


Oh no, I'm afraid that hell has officially froze over. Paul was right about the cowl and the cooling and I was wrong.

I cut some slots in it and hopefully that will be enough to cool it down.
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Paul Lange on December 24, 2017, 12:30:42 pm
I have lurked around the grounds of GSWAM think tank discussions regarding airflow and pressure dams.  Noting often times gaping frontal scoops in the cowling provided no airflow....thus the curious observation of a total different motor performance with and without the cowl. 

My keen sense of scrutiny and disbelief coupled with a measure of "That sounds totally insane" sometimes matches the amount of colorful metaphors when builders deploy the cowling as the last step in the flight tuning of thier respective builds...and the motor performance is significantly poorer than when operating sans cowling.

The dynamic principles of air pressure and flow as presented in many lawn chair discussions peaked my spirit while flying my electric's at the flight line.  Too which I have observed.....99% of my electric foamies have huge holes in the rear fuselage to create vacuum and allow forced air through the fuselage and over the electrical components from the motor cowling......perhaps the existential discussions of airflow is simply more down to earth than previously thought.

So I wondered how the mighty Coroplast Bipe powerplant would do in a highly pressurized static airflow scenario.......now we wait to see the modifications  to mediate such a stuffy scenario

Paul H Lange
The 90inch Carbon Cub is ready for maiden
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Joystick on December 24, 2017, 01:23:02 pm
I have built hundreds of planes, glow, electric and gas, and never had a problem with overheating like this one. 

Usually a large opening at the front and a small one at the rear creates the most problems.

This one has the entire bottom open and all of the cooling fins are exposed. Must be getting a heat buildup at the top. I cut some slots and will give that a try. If that don't work, it may be time to change the cowl design.
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Joystick on December 30, 2017, 01:49:19 pm
This new cowl should take care of the cooling problems.

Thanks to the cold weather, I managed to get some work done.

I'd still rather be flying.
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Joystick on April 20, 2018, 05:29:59 am
Got the Aux channel hooked up to do some b**b dropping. Should be fun.
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: dlabby on April 20, 2018, 10:22:26 am
Great looking bomb! It doesn't have sarin or chlorine gas in it does it? DOD may want to inspect it. Rest assured I won't report it.
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Joystick on June 14, 2018, 05:04:35 pm
The bomb drop mechanism works great, but the bomb is really hard to see. The color is only part of the problem. It needs to be a lot bigger.

I was looking for a bigger one, but they are hard to find. I thought about building one, but that is also hard. Finding a round nose and good round tube that is durable, cheap, lightweight, cheap, available, and cheap is not easy.

When I was out in the hot sun today and close to passing out from heat stroke, it hit me. I can make something like a Dardo 2C glide bomb out of coroplast! It doesn't need to be round it can be rectangular, have folding wings, and be made from yellow and blue coroplast, which I already have.

All I need to do now is design and build it. At least I won't need to cover it or paint it.

And it will be cheap. Wow, when I said that in my head, it sounded just like Lawrence.
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Joystick on December 08, 2018, 03:24:54 pm
Had an interesting thing happen on my biplane a few days ago on flight number 147.

The HD-1501MG servo on my rudder went from zero degrees on takeoff to about 20 degrees right shortly after takeoff. I did have one do that last year on my elevator, it went to about a 20 degree up elevator position and I replaced the servo.

I checked the rudder servo torque to see if any of the gears were stripped, everything seemed okay. I just repositioned the control arm and flew another flight. The right and left range were not changed, the movement was okay in both directions. It worked okay and zero didn't change again. I'll replace the servo before my next flight.

Seems strange that the servos would do this. Has anyone else had this happen?
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Joystick on February 17, 2019, 07:16:04 am
I finally bit the bullet and ordered a DLE 40cc Twin for the bipe.

It will look great with the cylinders poking out on each side of the fuselage. The plane does not need the extra power, but it will be fun and I've never had a twin before.
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Lane C. on February 17, 2019, 11:14:16 pm
Steve, woulda looked way cooler with a Moki 5 cyl radial!
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Joystick on February 18, 2019, 04:52:57 pm
I'm not rich like you warbird guys, I'd have to eat cat food for several years to be able to afford one of those.
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Lane C. on February 19, 2019, 06:55:50 am
Yes, but no longer "rich" as these toys make us poor. And, also very humble. I also eat cat food. Ha
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Joystick on February 27, 2019, 03:21:20 pm
Got twelve 10 minute flights on the new DLE 40cc Twin engine so far, a total of 162 flights for the plane. It is my favorite plane now for sure.
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Joystick on August 20, 2019, 04:30:32 pm
My DLE 40 Twin engine has not had good compression from the start. It did pick up a little but not nearly as much as the DLE 35 that I took off the plane at flt #150. I had a total of 248 flights on the plane today. I decided that with 16 hours of run time on this engine, it isn't getting any better.

I had a Bowman ring for a DLE 20 from a couple of years ago that I never put on an engine, so I just got a second ring and put them on today. The compression is way better already and I haven't even run the engine.

One thing I noticed during the ring swap was that the right cylinder had a lot of carbon on it and none on the left.

Can't wait to see how it runs when the weather cools off a little.
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Joystick on August 20, 2019, 08:12:29 pm
I couldn't wait for the weather to cool off. It did get down to 103, so I gave the rings a 5 min break in time and put one 10 min flight on the plane.

It has way more power than it did this morning before the ring change. It was about 87 degrees when I flew at sunup and I couldn't get good vertical performance. This afternoon I had unlimited vertical at 103 degrees. The hesitation on takeoff at the midrange transition was also gone.

When I replaced the rings, I set the needles back to the factory setting and didn't adjust them yet, so the engine is probably running a tad rich.

Love the new rings.
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: dlabby on August 28, 2019, 02:05:28 pm
Good move there, Cowboy.
Title: Re: Lazy Ace Biplane build from coroplast
Post by: Joystick on November 21, 2019, 09:06:25 am
I just finished flight #283, all 10 min. each.

The plane is still my favorite. The engine is running great.

It has been looking a little beat up and shabby because I've just been wiping it off with a paper towel after each flight.

I decided to clean it up and get the marks and stains off of it. The best thing I've found to clean it with is Dawn liquid detergent and baking soda with lots of water. It looks almost brand new now.

Coroplast is great stuff.sml LA Bipe 2 Nov 23.JPGsml LA Bipe Nov 23.JPG